- - Katie Couric Media and Yahoo may earn commission from links in this article. Pricing and availability subject to change."This Is Not OK": Gov. Josh Shapiro and Katie Get Candid About ICE

Diana ValenzuelaJanuary 28, 2026 at 4:54 AM

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"This Is Not OK": Gov. Josh Shapiro and Katie Get Candid About ICE

In recent weeks, national attention has focused on the intense confrontations in Minneapolis — including two separate fatal shootings of U.S. citizens by federal immigration agents — that have sparked protests and galvanized a broader debate over use of force and federal authority.

In light of these events, Katie reached out to Gov. Josh Shapiro to talk frankly about this conspicuous increase in violence on the latest episode of her podcast, Next Question. Their wide-ranging conversation touches on Shapiro's experience of being attacked in the Pennsylvania governor's mansion and the Trump administration's reaction to the latest shooting in Minneapolis. Also, Shapiro explains why he chose to write his new book, Where We Keep the Light. Together, they explore what leadership looks like in a moment when political rhetoric is increasingly turning into real-world harm. Read the highlights and watch the new episode of Next Question below.

Katie Couric: This past Saturday in Minneapolis, federal immigration agents fatally shot 37-year-old Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse at the city's VA hospital. He's the second person to be fatally shot in the city during ongoing protests against a ramped-up immigration enforcement effort by the Trump administration. Does this feel like a dangerous inflection point or a watershed moment? How would you assess what's happening in Minneapolis?

Josh Shapiro: I believe that it is the primary responsibility of any governor, mayor, or president to keep people safe. That is the foundational and fundamental responsibility we all have. Part of the way you keep people safe is by building trust between law enforcement and the community they police and protect. What the federal government under Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, and Kristi Noem has done is eviscerate that trust, leaving people less safe and bringing more chaos into the streets of Minneapolis.

I think it's critically important that this mission be terminated immediately, and there be a full investigation into the killing of Renee Goode and Alex Pretti. Katie, the last time we spoke was during COVID; I was the Pennsylvania Attorney General then. I was the chief law enforcement officer of this commonwealth. I routinely sent agents out in the field. I will tell you that the current practices that CBP and ICE are engaged in do not meet baseline proper policing procedures, from the manner in which they are masked to the manner in which they are stopping people simply because they have an accent or their skin is a different color to the way in which they're discharging their weapons in the community.

This is not proper policing; it's eviscerating the trust that exists. And then the leadership at the top who put them on this mission — President Trump, Vice President Vance, and others — are shamefully gaslighting the community, attacking Alex Pretti after their own agents claimed his life, forcing parents who are grieving to have to come out and defend their son in death because of the actions by these federal officials. This is not OK. This is outside the bounds of the law. I would argue this violates the 10th Amendment of our Constitution. And it needs to end.

Well, governor, that's all well and good, but — to borrow a phrase that seems appropriate — given what's happening across the country, there's a snowball's chance in hell that ICE is going to stop this operation, that the proper investigations are going to commence. Quite frankly, it sounds almost naive for you to insist upon that, because I think that's what everyone has been saying, but nothing's being done.

May I very respectfully push back on that? You're right to push me on that. I think number one, the State Attorney General has the power to conduct an investigation and should conduct the investigation. Should they find that federal officials obstructed justice by impacting the crime scene, that is a crime, and they should be charged. There's nothing stopping state officials from conducting a full investigation. That's point number one.

But they don't have that. They don't have access to a lot of the information from the crime scene. Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota, has said they'll conduct an investigation. But it seems to me, and you're an attorney, I'm not, that the federal government is really impeding their ability to do just that.

That is a crime. If you're obstructing justice, that is a crime. I believe the state has the power to conduct an investigation. I think the second point about the mission is also something that I would respectfully push back on. We have seen courts curtail this president's power, for example, regarding the National Guard. I believe a similar 10th Amendment argument can be made. I believe they're making it in a court in Minnesota today or tomorrow. And that must be pursued.

Third, I believe that this week, the Congress of the United States can stop funding for ICE's mission in Minnesota, and I would like to see them do so. I do not believe that all is hopeless. I would hope that the federal government under Donald Trump would participate in a responsible approach here. I think you're right to suggest that they won't, but that doesn't mean there aren't others who don't have power in this process. And I believe they need to execute that power and use it to protect the community.

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